How excited are you
about going to Nimbin?
Very! Very excited. I haven’t been on the road for quite a
while, so I will be back on the road and anything that involves a large number
of independent, weird and wonderful musicians is something that is always going
to get my interest, and I know it’s going to be a fun time.
I like your
categorisation of ‘weird and wonderful’ – could you elaborate?
I don’t have many friends that are accountants or even
tradespeople. I just find that people who dedicate their life to art are great
people to be around. They may not have much stuff but they’ve lived their lives
and I learn from them, and I love being around people who have lived
extraordinary lives.
This is slightly off
topic, perhaps, but are there people you’ve met who you would consider mentors?
Definitely. I think every musician that I’ve come to know
and respect has taught me something. It might be someone who’s just starting
out who’s just a mind-blowing, gifted songwriter. Rob Hirst from Midnight Oil
is one of my mentors. I played in a band with him years ago – we put out an
album in 2004 together – so getting to work with him was pretty amazing. James
Blundell is a real mentor of mine. He’s a great friend and I recorded an album,
produced an album, for him a few years ago and we’ve stayed in touch. He’s had
an amazing career and so I’ve learnt a lot about the choices I make and the
things I do from his experiences. Having been through all sides of the music
industry from number one on the charts to down and out in the media, hunting
him down, he’s really lived it. The other thing with James, having got to know
him, is that he’s such an artist – he’s had an artist’s life.
Which is contrary to
his public image, I think.
Well, that’s the thing – his writing, as a songwriter and
artist, is amazing. He’s done such an amazing body of work. He’s known for
doing the Dingoes cover ‘Way Out West’ but he’s still loved for a lot of his
other work like ‘Postcards from Saigon’ and ‘Kimberley Moon’. For me, anyway –
and I think that this is something that would be echoed by many of the artists
who are going to be at Nimbin Roots – it’s not always about people’s public
awareness of you. It’s more about finding people or letting people find you who
get what you do and appreciate what you do. Because it’s art. Everyone’s
different. Everyone’s got a slightly different perspective on it. What does
tend to cheese me off is artists who are just focused on the publicity, on the
poster and the photos and it’s not enough about the music itself, which is the
most important thing.
And if you’re only
focused on the poster and the photos, it can only take you so far. If the
work’s not there to back it up it falls over pretty quickly.
I don’t know – you’d be surprised [laughs]. Those things as
well as having a ruthless and very good manager, and a big record label, they
will make you very well known and make you a lot of money. They don’t
necessarily make you a great artist. A lot of the people at the Nimbin Roots
Festival are not those people. But people who are that way inclined and they’re
looking for some substance and they’re looking for something a bit more than
just what mainstream has to offer, I think [Nimbin] is the perfect destination
for them, because I can personally guarantee that anyone who goes there will
walk away having discovered an artist who’s going to impact their life –
someone they’re going to love and buy their albums and go to their shows.
The word you just
used – ‘discovered’ – was on my mind because the thing with a big publicity
machine is that it makes the artist more discoverable, and of course that is
the challenge for artists who don’t have that behind them: how people hear
about them when they’re less inclined to go out to shows and everyone is always
nervous about new things, really. But that’s the great thing about a festival
like this – Lou’s intention in putting it together is … I’m
not going to say ‘pure’, because that makes it sound twee, but she’s got a real
sense of mission.
She definitely has. She always has. And she’s not afraid to
ruffle feathers and she’s not afraid to question the establishment – and thank
god someone’s doing it. I’m happy with my career. I’ve been an ARIA finalist,
I’ve toured and made a living from music for 15 or 20 years, I have a really
great mob of people who love what I do and who will buy my albums and come to
my shows. But people don’t know who I am – the general public doesn’t know who
I am. I’ve got a past career as an Olympian and I’m a world record holder but I
don’t need that to identify what I do as an artist. I’m not making any
apologies or excuses for the music I make, and I want people to choose it
because they like it, not because they’re told to. And this whole festival is
about that – it’s about people who put their time and energy into creative
pursuits, and into music, and into the craft of songwriting. And this is an
ancient craft. Folk music is still alive and well – the stories people tell
about the land, about their travels, about the government. Making up songs
about Tinder, you know. That’s what music’s about – it’s about sharing
collective experiences and connecting with each other through the music and
those collective experiences.
As I like to say,
country music – which is a large umbrella – is our storytelling in song.
There’s no other genre – if I include all those genres related to country –
that’s providing that. I can’t think of any rock song that makes me say,
‘That’s a story I had to have.’
Exactly. There’s these stories in these little pockets of
Australian history that are being captured by people and they’re probably not
even aware of it – that’s not what they’re trying to do, necessarily. It’s just
their passion and their way of expressing. What would you rather have: a
multi-trillionaire what you need to know or someone you’ve never heard of who
just makes up songs because they like it? Who would you rather trust? We’re all
making our own history and musicians and songwriters are documenting it.
Yes, and they have a
really direct channel to the audience. In live performance your audience is
right there, which harks back to how stories were originally told – sitting
around a fire, telling a story.
That’s it. It is a very pure and very honest form. I think
the fewer people you have between that artist who’s telling the story and the
audience that’s making their own decision about whether they like it or not,
the better. Because music is an industry – it’s a multi-billion-dollar industry
– and really statistically very few people get a majority of the cut of the
pie, but it doesn’t necessarily invalidate people who aren’t. In fact, I think
sometimes they’re more valid. They’re sometimes people you’ve never heard of.
Nick Drake is a great example of someone who didn’t make lots of money when he
was alive. Wasn’t really acknowledged for what he did. However, he has
influenced musicians for a couple of generations now and will continue to.
That’s success: someone who influences their peers and inspires people to keep
going and keep creating music. The paradigm of being rich and everybody knowing
your name as ‘successful’ is false.
Every time I go to
Tamworth I see how engaged the audience is, whether it’s listening to someone
they’ve never heard of on Peel Street or in a pub, or it’s a big show. You can
see on their faces how much it means to them that those people are there and
they’re performing for them and telling stories for them. And it’s really
moving, actually.
The experience of live music itself is still so powerful.
From touring for years, getting to know people in a town and come back six
months later and play again. And this happens over 10 years, so I’ve got whole
crews of friends who are in places like Warracknabeal, Goodna and Perth, Fremantle.
Some of the little pubs and things I used to travel to, after being there a few
time and playing at the bar with an acoustic, they’d ask me to play unplugged.
I wouldn’t even set up a PA, I’d just sit at the bar and play and tell stories.
The less you can get between the music and the listener, the better. At the
same time, not everyone who’s undiscovered is amazing. There are some amazing
people who are undiscovered but there’s a lot of shit out there too [laughs].
Given that you have
travelled extensively, I imagine you’ve played in the Nimbin area if not in
Nimbin itself in the past.
I don’t actually think I’ve ever played in Nimbin before. I’ve
played around. I’ve played in Uki, I’ve played Byron, I’ve played Ballina and
Tweed and I played Murwillumbah Country Roots Fest last year.
How was that?
That was brilliant. Having been doing this for a long time
and still having the hairs on the back of my neck stand up when I’m watching
other artists perform, I’m grateful for that. I’m so glad I’m not bitter and
jaded and sick of the whole thing. There’s many people are who have been doing
their job for twenty years. I still love it and I’m still grateful for every
opportunity to play my music.
Of course Lou [Bradley] was the artistic director of
that festival too. Did you have to make a submission to be in the festival?
I did. But I’ve known Lou for coming up to ten years now. I
live down the south coast of New South Wales and when she’d come down here I’d
help her find some shows and get gigs down here, and she’s done the same for
me. And she’s moved up now and organising festivals, as I am as well – I’m
booking festivals and booking events round near where I live as well. But she always
comes to my gigs and her kids come to my gigs. She gets that I’ve been doing it
independently as well and trying to stay clear of the bullshit, and just trying
to make good music and do it honestly and organically and play it to people.
And not everyone loves it but just be there for those who do and you try to
make good records.
Are there any artists
in particular who you’re looking forward to seeing play in Nimbin?
Jodi Martin – she is an
amazing songwriter and she’s been travelling and doing the hard yards for a really
long time. She’s from Ceduna, out back of South Australia. She is a magnificent
writer so I’m looking forward to seeing what new material she does. She’s one
of those people who’ll get up on stage and say, ‘Oh, I wrote this one this
morning and I’m going to play it now.’ Just so unaware of her brilliance. She
doesn’t walk around like a rock star – she’s mostly walking around going, ‘What
am I doing here?’ It’s just who she is and she does it so well, so I always
look forward to seeing her perform. And I haven’t studied the programme because
my favourite way to discover new artists is to just wander around and bump into
stuff, or just follow my ears – if I hear something that sounds good I’ll just
go and look at it. I’m sure that I’ll walk away from this festival with another
dozen or so favourite artists and a bunch of new CDs to listen to on the drive
on the way home.
Which is so exciting.
And something you said just a few minutes ago, that you haven’t become jaded – it
is so easy to shut your brain off to new things and I think that spirit of
enquiry and constantly looking for and enjoying new material is terrific.
I think a lot of people have got the wrong idea of wealth. They’ve
been hoodwinked into thinking that having a lot of things is wealth, but I think
having good life experiences is what wealth is about. Having a wealth of experiences.
If you cut yourself off to those new experiences or to trying new things … I
love watching TV as much as the next person, but it’s not going to bring you
any wealth of experience, is it? [laughs] A great movie is another thing. Great
film is an art form just like great performers and songwriters. So [Nimbin] is
one of those opportunities to look behind the screen and see something that’s without
the hype and is a real snapshot of roots music, folk music and country music in
Australia at this time.
Are you still doing
some producing?
Yes. I choose my projects carefully. I’m producing an album for
Spy V Spy – I sing in Spy V Spy, I’ve
been with that band for a few years. They called me in – they were looking for
a singer and asked me to do it and I happened to be a huge fan. A bit of a
theme of anti-establishment songwriting – Spy V Spy fits straight into that. I’ve
been recording with them and helping them release a new album. And I’ve got my
studio set up, I’ve been recording – the last collaboration has been with a
mechanic who’s a poet and he just had all these lyrics. He came to me and said,
‘I want to make these into songs’, so I put the music to them and we recorded
them, and he’s done a whole album. That’s been amazing, working with someone
who’s just a pure artist – so pure an artist they don’t even know they’re an
artist. [I’m also] co-writing with different people and working on some of my
own stuff when I get a chance.
So my last question is:
I saw something on your website about a fake Paul Greene. There’s someone going
around saying he’s Paul Greene and he’s not.
[Laughs] There’s a guy whose name’s Joe Zammit. He naturalised
as an Australian citizen in 1980-something and he gave himself the name Paul
Greene He performs under both names, but he’s been recently contacting venues
in my local area. I’m not quite sure what he says but the venues seem to think
it’s me. So I’m playing at this pub up the road that booked this other guy and
he was terrible, apparently, and they said they’d never have him back and I
said, ‘I’m sorry that the other Paul Greene got there first but I’d be happy to
come and play for you, and we’ll play on this spin that this guy’s been
hijacking my name’. I think he must get a better fee.
How frustrating!
It really sucks. I imagine the people who haven’t been to
one of my shows see this guy playing, turn up, they don’t know it’s not me and
they walk away saying, ‘That was horrible.’ He plays to midi files, apparently.
I’ve confronted this guy and said, ‘It’s not good for me and ultimately it’s
not good for you’ – because I actually registered Paul Greene as a trademark so
no one else can perform as a musician under that name legally. But the other
side of the coin, I think the guy must be really desperate if he’s wanting to
use my name. Why doesn’t he use Michael Jackson or John Lennon or Bob Dylan?
He probably really
likes your music – he might have seen you play and thought, I want to be that guy!
In a sense I pity the guy that that’s the best option he
got, using my name. He must have had a pretty dismal career and he must really
need the help.
And as the saying
goes, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
That is true, and there is the side of me that goes, ‘Poor
guy, just give him a break – let him be Paul Greene for a couple of hours. If
he has to do that, the rest of his life can’t be all that fabulous.’
