The Wolfe Brothers set to blaze at Tamworth

Tasmanian band the Wolfe Brothers probably couldn't have had a bigger 2013 if they'd tried. They released their debut album, It's On, and not only did they join Lee Kernaghan on tour as his support act but they were also his band for his own set. Then they ended the year with four Golden Guitar nominations. In advance of their headlining show at Blazes at West Tamworth Leagues Club on 23 January 2013, I spoke to guitarist Brodie Rainbird. The band will also play some New South Wales shows before Tamworth -details at the end of the piece.

Congratulations on the four Golden Guitar nominations.  I would think that even though you guys have been having a lot of success, that must always come as a bit of a surprise.

Oh, absolutely.  The good things always do.  When they reeled off the nominations when we were there at the presentation morning, they just kept reeling them off and we kept adding them up, one, two, three, four.  It was like, are you sure it's us?  Are you sure we deserve this?  We're so honoured and thankful to be a part of the Golden Guitars this year.  It's our first year so – to get four noms, yeah, absolutely stoked.

And so I presume you'll be playing at the show as well?

At the Golden Guitar Awards?  I don't think so.

Oh, really? I would have thought - - -

I don't think they'll let us play this year. I'm not sure if it's set in stone yet but it looks like a no so far.

One of your nominations is for APRA Song of the Year – is it a surprise to you that that's the song that was nominated, because there are several great songs on the album?

Mmm, 'The Girl With All the Memories', was that the one?

Yes, yes, that's the one.

I don't know, we're just surprised to get anything at all, so [laughs] – so, I guess, 'yes' is the answer to that question.  I was over the moon, I'm speechless.

The next question is what are you going to wear? Everyone wants to know what people want to wear [laughs].

 [Laughs] I haven't even thought about that. Actually, it's good that you brought that up.  I haven't thought about it.

The good thing with blokes is that you can kind of get away with wearing either a suit or whatever.  At Tamworth everyone seems to mix it up and it's bloody hot, apart from anything else.

Yeah, that's true.  I reckon – well, the only thing I know we'll be wearing is boots.

Right [laughs].  You played a couple of shows in Tasmania in December to thank your home-town fans.  How much does that support mean to you?

Oh, it's everything.  It's  the home-town support is what got us where we are now.  I think when we were on Australia's Got Talent, most of the people who live in Tasmania were voting and helping us out there and look where they got us now, we got to play with Lee Kernaghan and we've gone on tour with him and the Golden Guitars are everything.  We owe it all to the people who voted on that show, and most of that would have been Tasmania, I think.

Tasmania must also have given you an opportunity do a lot of playing live; do you think having that having the support of Tasmanians at your shows as you were developing as a band made you better performers?

Absolutely.  We cut our teeth here in Tassie.  Each of us would finish work on Friday afternoon and we'd drive to the venue and we'd set up all the gear and we'd go and have a shower and then come back and do a gig, pack up the gig, get up the next day, go and do another gig at North Tasmania somewhere; it would be two or three gigs a weekend – for years we did that.  And that's really where we honed what we do and how we do it.

How did you keep up the momentum all those years doing that?  Because that's pretty relentless when you're working full time, and I know you all did have full-time jobs before this took off the way it has. It's a huge commitment and it takes a lot of belief and dedication to end your working week and do what you've just described over the weekend.

Yeah, it does, but it's really fun [laughs].  So it was easy.  You just – I can't wait to do gigs.  Gigs are … we all feel the same, it's the best thing – best part of your life, it's the fun bit.  It's the bit where you go and spread joy and you see smiles on people's faces, and everything from the pub gigs to the rowdy B&Ss and the bull rides we used to do, they were the highlight of our year.  We had one called the Bull Light Dash, which is no longer there, and that was like our biggest gig of the year.  We looked forward to that.  Months out we were getting ready for that and, "Oh, should learn this song.  We'll take it to Bull Light", and we get there and [it was a] raucous event where everyone's drinking Bundy and throwing the food dye around – that's the highlight of our lives, these gigs.  So I guess in that respect it wasn't hard, but Tom [Wolfe] used to manage us on his own and he'd be on his phone 24/7 just running this band in Tasmania, so I could see the work in that is quite a lot.  But only one person can do that otherwise it gets confusing, so none of us could really help him but – yeah, like I said, gigs are where it's at for us.  We love it.

Because you still love it, obviously the dynamic amongst the band must still really strong, but I'm actually really curious about what it's like for you playing in the band with brothers, whether there's a sense that sometimes the brothers get to win if there's a disagreement?

Oh, disagreements, oh, hell, yeah [laughs].  Yeah. Absolutely.  Oh, we've got them in spades.  But we're all close enough and – they can be having an argument, 10 minutes later we'll all be laughing about it. It's fine.  We've done a lot of that over the years and we've worked through a lot of stuff and at the end of the day, like I said, we've all got a common goal and even if we weren't in the band we'd all be hanging out as mates anyway, so it's a pretty strong bond, and I think we're really lucky to have that.  And it gets us through just about anything that happens.

It's a common bond but it's also a common focus and I guess that would carry through a lot of things.  You all love what you're doing and you want to keep doing it.

Absolutely. We want to be doing this 40 years later [laughs].  We want to be old and grey and still be able to do gigs.

Well, as The Rolling Stones have proved, you definitely can.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

So your background as a guitarist – have you been playing since you were a child?

I think I picked up the guitar in about grade 5.  Because my next-door neighbour played guitar and I thought, wow, that looks pretty cool – I reckon I'll get some attention from some girls. So I picked it up in grade 5 and just really enjoyed it and sort of stuck with it, and, of course ,being mates with the Wolfe brothers, they were out doing gigs before I was and I used to go to gigs with them and help pack up the gear and stuff like that, and just go and support, and eventually I managed to get myself in the band [laughs] and away we went.

How did you manage to get yourself in the band?

There's been a number of different line-ups and different names for this band, but I think Nick and Tom [Wolfe] had always been there and it's just been different drummers and then I've come in, we had a different drummer and then we got Casey and then the whole line-up formed. But I don't know, I think they decided they wanted another guitarist and I was there [laughs], so ...

[Laughs] Right place, right time.

Yes.  Good mates. You know, I wasn't the best player back then and still not am now, but I think the fact that we all got along really well and we're all mates already, like that already meant more than anything else.  So that meant it would work.

Do you all get involved in songwriting?

Yeah, in some form or another.  Nick's our main songwriter.  He's the main genius behind it all.  But I've co-written a couple of songs with him and so has Tom, and so has Casey, and anyone who sits next to him becomes a good songwriter, so it's pretty easy once you get in there with him.  And then we all get together and we talk about the song that's just been written and we talk about what feel we want to put with it and what little things we want to do with it, where we want to take it.  So I guess we all have input in some form or another, especially when it comes to pre-production of it, if they're deciding which direction that someone wants to be in, we're all there, so it's definitely a group effort towards the end.

Listening to you talk just about the various aspects of the band, it is no mystery to me why you've had such success because it sounds like you've all got incredibly professional attitudes to what you're doing, you enjoy it and you also all really work well together. But I tend to think a lot of artists make their own luck.  To an extent, there is luck involved, it's getting on Australia's Got Talent, but it's no mystery to me now listening to you why Lee Kernaghan would want to tour with you.

Oh, thanks [laughs].

[Laughs] That's all right.

That was really good.  I really enjoyed that.

[Laughs] But he's a professional as well, he can obviously spot it.

The thing we had going with Lee, the chemistry there in that band and when we do those gigs, you know, Lee really enjoys playing with us and we love playing Lee's songs, we love doing Lee's gigs. That's another thing that we couldn't believe was actually happening as well – we went to our first rehearsal with Lee and we'd never met the guy in person, really, and he came in and said g'day to all of us, shook our hands, and then we played one song and he said, "Well, boys, I like what I hear.  You've got the job." From just one song. And ever since then it's been a fantastic rollercoaster ride with Lee.  He helps us out any way he possibly can and he's just a great bloke.  He's one of our best mates now and, yeah, we love touring with him.

And guys are not only playing the support slot on the tour but you're also – you're also Lee's band.  That's quite a long night.

Oh, no, it's fine.  It's all good.  When we used to do the other gigs, we'd play for three hours anyway. So it's all good.  We love it.

I think it happens in country music more than other genres where the artists just really love what they're doing – everyone just seems to be so happy to get up in the morning and play their music.  It's beautiful.

I don't think you can be sad and play country music.  I don't know, it's just – it's a really good  thing.  I discovered country music through Brad Paisley and I've been happy ever since [laughs].

Well, I hope you get the opportunity to meet Brad Paisley and tell him that.

Oh, I would just – I would die [laughs].

I would think that playing with Lee sets you up really well to get spots for touring international artists.  A promoter might be thinking, Oh, well, those guys certainly know what they're doing.  Get them on Brad Paisley's bill.

Well we're going to head over to America [in 2014] and do a bit more in Nashville, hopefully.  And we're going to record the new album in March and probably take that over there as well and see how we go.  We did have a close encounter with Paisley last time we were there.  We were hanging out with our mate, Luke Wootten, who's a Nashville producer.  He said he's going to come over and produce our next album but we actually went to a gun range with Luke, and his phone rang while we were in the range and it came up and Tom was looking over his shoulder, being a bit of a stickybeak, and it came up, the number was Brad Paisley.  And he said, "Oh guys, I've got to take this, it's Brad," and he walks outside [laughs].  He walked outside and he was on the phone to Brad Paisley.  I couldn't believe I was that close to that happening.  And Brad – he said he was at the gun range with an Australian band called the Wolfe Brothers.  Brad said to just watch out and make sure we don't shoot each other's eyes out or something like that [laughs]. So that was the closest I've ever got to him, and I was really happy with that.

It's only one degree of separation now.  I think you should lean on Luke to set up an introduction.

Oh, absolutely, yeah.  Yeah, I'll be leaning a lot for that [laughs].

Luke is coming out here to produce your album when you record it. How did you first come across him as a producer?

I think he's done a lot of work with Lee and we have the same management, Stephen White Management, so Steve hooked us up with Luke. [He was] doing a lot of work with Lee Kernaghan and he's just one of the best blokes you'll ever meet.  When we went to Nashville he took a week off for us and just showed us around Nashville and took us to his favourite drinking holes and we did heaps of stuff with him.  Like I said, we went shooting together and  he's a great bloke.  Definitely want to meet him, you know, he's good.

Back to the touring: I guess now you're at the point in your lives where you're more on the road than off it.  So does it feel a bit strange to just be home?

Oh, no – we're all getting used to the whole lifestyle now.  I think the most time we've spent at home in a straight run is about three or four weeks this whole year, is the longest time [laughs].  But it's good, we've all adjusted to the being on the road lifestyle pretty well I think and we're all taking it easy.  And personally I don't have a problem living out of a suitcase in a hotel.  I think it's great.

You've living the rock 'n' roll dream, or the country music dream.

[Laughs] Yeah, yeah.  That's all any of us ever really wanted to do.

And that's fantastic, because it's relatively early in your recording career but it's actually not early in terms of how long you've all been playing, so it sounds like you've definitely done your time preparing for this lifestyle.

Absolutely.  All the little weekends we've done in Tassie and road trips and sleeping on a swag somewhere in a paddock, you know, all that sort of prepared us for this, I think, and now we kind of look at it as if we've got it pretty easy.  I mean, we kind of do really.  Like I said, we used to sleep on swags just on the back of a truck somewhere after a gig and now we  get a hotel with a comfy bed [laughs].

So you're not feeling nostalgic for the old days where you were sleeping in a swag?

Oh, I kind of do to be honest.  I do get a bit nostalgic. 

And now I'll ask you about your Tamworth show, because of course Tamworth is not that far away.  You're playing at Blazes which is, of course, the venue to play at and you're headlining. How did you pick your support band, Lawson Shire?

Well, we heard about them.  I think this is their debut gig and we heard about them and heard a bit about what they do and just thought, yeah, I reckon they'd be right for us.

Well, that's quite generous of you and perhaps a little bit of a risk giving someone giving someone a debut gig.

Oh, yeah, well that's the sort of thing that Lee has done for us, so I guess we're paying it forward.  Yeah, giving someone else a shot.

It's quite unusual for bands around the time of their first album to get that kind of headlining spot in Blazes because it is often the preserve of artists who have been around quite a bit longer.  In a way it kind of means like you're moving into the – not older generation, but more established generation of Australian country music.  Does it feel to you guys like you've kind of moved on from being newcomers?

Not quite yet, now, I don't think.  Maybe when we get past this first Golden Guitar round.  If we get one I would quite happily say maybe we've moved up a level [laughs] but … maybe, I guess you're right though looking at it that way, we are moving up, which is kind of scary.  I never thought of it that way.

Well, look, there are many, many acts who would never get to play at Blazes.  That's all I'm saying [laughs]. It's a big – I think it's a big honour.

Oh, absolutely.  I can't wait – yeah, looking forward to that gig.  It's going to be different at Tamworth for us. Last year we had an album coming out and we did interviews all day every day, we went from one interview to the next, all – constantly all day.  So I don't think we've got too much going on this time, and this is are only show, this Blazes one on Thursday the 23rd.  That's our only gig apart from the one in the park with Lee.  So we're going to have a good time.  We're going to get out and see some bands and check the scene out for ourselves this year.

Which is always one of the best things about Tamworth – well, there are many great things about it but there is just so much music on offer, so I would think for you guys or for any band really to just have that opportunity to see who's around and who you might want to put on as your next support act, would be great.

That's something to think about too, absolutely.  Check out the talent and see who's up and coming and say hello to them.

Then you've got a couple of jobs in Tamworth.  You've got to find something to wear to the awards and then check out and see who your new support act might be [laughs].

Absolutely.  I'm glad you reminded me about that actually.  I'll have to go shopping now.

The Wolfe Brothers play:

17 January 2014 - Lizottes Kincumber

18 January 2014 - Lizottes Newcastle

23 January 2014 - West Tamworth Leagues Club

www.thewolfebrothers.com

Jason Owen's first Tamworth show

Jason Owen - who first won fans as the runner-up in the 2012 season of The X-Factor - will play his first ever show at the Tamworth Country Music Festival when he joins Amber Lawrence in a show at the Blazes Showroom at Wests on 23 January 2014. Amber and Jason have extended their hugely popular Islands in the Stream tour to not only take in Tamworth but a range of other cities and towns throughout the first half of this year. I spoke to Jason just before the end of last year about the tour so far, about Tamworth and also what lies ahead as he writes and records his next album.

The last time we spoke your album was about to come out and it certainly more than came out.  It went to number five on the ARIA Album Chart, and number one on the iTunes Country Chart in the first week of release.  Was that unexpected for you?  Did you think it might do really well? 

That was totally unexpected for me, because I didn’t expect to get that type of vibe back from the album. It was a few months after the show [The X-Factor] had finished, and they were auditioning the next lot of contestants and – no, I didn’t expect it to be like that at all.

Even though that album isn’t strictly country music, you certainly seemed to have built audiences in rural and regional areas really well.  Do you think that the rural and regional audiences are really good keeping faith, I guess, with you?

Yeah, look, a hundred per cent.  There are lot of people out there that love just pure country western music.  And there is a lot of people out there that like that type of heavy ballad, type of Bryan Adamsy feel.

Now you are extending your tour with Amber Lawrence, so clearly that is going very well?  Or are you secretly not getting along?

We are loving each every day together.  We have so much fun together. It is just that it is a real privilege for me to be on the road with someone that has been doing it for a little while and they have had a lot of experience.  So you have got to learn some way.  And it has been amazing.

And this is your first ever tour experience, and first time, I guess, working with a band consistently, so as a performer, what have you learnt over the last few months?

I reckon, as a performer over the last year, I would have to say I have learnt a lot about performing.  A lot about strategy of music, because, I mean, it is completely different – it is a different world when you are performing with a live band to what it is when you are performing with backing tracks, you know what I mean? It is really amazing.  And, honestly, to have learnt so much from the band about music and different things like that, I found it really, really enjoyable. 

Q:            I remember when I last interviewed you, you talked about how you warm up your voice every day and doing vocal exercises.  So I was wondering how your voice has been holding up with such consistent and long tour?

That is a really good question.  My voice has actually held up very well on tour.  There has been one show that I have had to pull out on, because I actually ended up with a vocal infection.  I had a really bad case of tonsillitis.  And I sang.  I sang with a swollen throat.  And that damaged my vocal cords.  So I had to pull out of one of the concerts.  It was Windsor.  And then I went to the doctor, and everything like that.  But luckily enough there was a month break after that show.  So by the time I was ready to come back, I was ready as well.  So it worked well.

So for a damaged vocal cord is the prescription just to rest?  Or did you have to do something else?

No, no, rest.  Whatever you do, try and talk the least you possibly can.  Definitely do not sing or you could ruin it for life.  So it was very, very – it was scary.  I wasn’t game to even say “Hello” [laughs].

It also must have been really strange for you to not sing, because it seems as if, for you, singing is really an extension of your day-to-day life, and who you are.

It is.  Like, I get with my mates, and you will sit and the car, and we will just singing along to songs all day, sitting in the car.  And they go, “Aren’t you sick of it; doing it nearly every day of the week? And you do it for a living.  It is what you do.”  And I said, “Well, that is why I don’t get sick of it, because it is something I love to do.”

Well, I think they actually should have been sitting there thinking they were getting a free concert.

 [Laughs].  Yeah, but it is not free concert when you are with them every day, and you sing and they get sick of you fairly quickly [laughs].

Fair enough!  Speaking of getting sick of things, you are not sick of singing ‘Islands in the Stream’ yet?

[Laughs]  Yes and no at the same time.  We have probably sung that about 400 times in the last six months.  But it is a great song.  It is a song that everyone loves.  And we have had so much fun singing it too. 

Often, as an audience member, I wonder how, when artists have a signature song – and for you and Amber on this tour this is the song – how you manage to make it new every night.  I mean, you possibly don’t.  But do you find different sort of things inside of it, or different ways to sing it, just to keep it interesting for yourself?

Yes and no.  For the audiences, of course, it is always something new for them, because it is not the same people see every show, so of course it is different for them.  But, for us, it is the same old ‘Islands in the Stream’ that we have been singing all along.  But, I mean, we do try and change things around.  But, the thing is, with a song like that, covered by us, and originally from two legends, it is hard to change it too much, because everyone relates back to Kenny to Dolly.

Yes [laughs].  It is a big burden.  But, obviously, you are carrying it off well or you wouldn’t still be on tour. People are obviously enjoying it.

Yeah.  Exactly.  So we can’t change it too much.  We have just put our own little spins on it.

Has it inspired you to think of doing any more duets with Amber?

I am actually working in the process of a new album, and I hope to get a duet underway with Amber as well on my new album.  Of course, if it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen.  But she is recording an album as well.  So maybe I can jump on her album, or something.  But we are loving working with each other and we really want to keep working along with each other somewhere along the line. 

I did have a question about your album.  And as you have mentioned it, I will go to that one, which is: I am always really curious when artists are touring a lot, how they manage to fit in, or even think about, recording something down the track, or writing songs for it.  So how are you managing your time?

Being on the road, I get a lot of advice off the musos, off the band, and they have all been in the industry quite a long time ... I am doing lots of songwriting in December, but as soon as you have got a few days off – because usually you perform on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday basis.  It is not very often you sing on a Thursday or something night, [so] you usually record during the week, probably, and then go to do your shows on the weekend.  It is a lot of hard work.  And it is a lot of pressure on your voice, but you have just got to look after it.

I would also would imagine with recording, because you are doing take after take after take, probably, or for some songs you are, it would be quite tough to keep it going.

It is – it is a hundred per cent.  And it is not easy to record at all.  You get a really good producer and they want everything a hundred per cent, and that is what you want in the long run.  It might seem like forever, and ‘Oh my god, I am sick of this’ in the studio, but when your album is released you will realise that it was all worth the time. 

So have you already been writing songs for this album?

I have got about three or four songs written of my own.  And, yeah, they are very, very nice songs.  I am very excited about them.

Because that is a different process again.  It would be quite easy to just be a performer and not worry about that side of things.

Yeah, a hundred per cent.  If I had professional writers writing for me, it is a good thing.  But it is good to just let your hair down and just start writing your own music.  You just put a story in place and away you go … I mean, if you write a good song, you write a good song.  But while you are sitting there writing something on a piece of paper, you never know, it could be a global hit that you are writing.  You don’t know.

Where does your song writing inspiration come from?

I sit down at home and I just write the type of songs that come to my mind.  Of course, being 19 years of age you go through a bit of love crisis when you are younger and you just relate back to that, I suppose.  A lot of famous artists that have written love songs, they have all be quite young when they write it. That is when it hurts.  You don’t even know what love is really, do you?

And you still go through a lot of chopping and changing, in regards to love, and who you love. 

That is right, a hundred per cent.

This is possibly a cheeky question, but I would think there are some young people who come to see you in concert who would be hoping they have a chance.  Have you had to deal with any over-keen fans?

Yeah, I have.  Like, on the X-Factor tour, there was a lot of fans. They would throw rocks at your window of your room, and different things like that, just to try and get your attention, just to see you. And to go down in the foyer of a morning, and they are there and they – yeah.  Look, we have had some crazy fans – pulling their shirts down and everything like that. You do get wild fans.  But I suppose you can’t complain.

I just can’t believe anyone would throw a rock at your window and expect that you are going to respond positively to that?

Well, that is what happened.  Nathaniel and I were in a room once and that happened.  And bang.  I said, “What was that?”  He said, “Probably just a fan throwing stuff at the window.”  [Laughs].

Does it make you a little bit nervous – that sort of behaviour?

It does.  Because you don’t know what to expect next, do you know what I mean?

Speaking of shows and fans, you have a big show in Tamworth with Amber.  Have you had any Tamworth experiences in the past?

I used to do a bit of recording with LBS Studios, once upon a time, when I was younger, just to experience everything of the industry.  I used to do a few shows with them at the Festival.  Out the back of their studio it was like an auditorium. But nothing like it will be this year – going to the Golden Guitar Awards and performing with Amber in the Blazes Room at the Wentworth Leagues. Big shows.  So it is going to be really good.            

           

Blazes, of course, is one of the key venues to play at.  So do be doing that at 19 years of age is pretty amazing.

Excellent.  Thank you much. It has just been an incredible ride.  And I must say, hopefully I can just keep pursuing the great music for everyone to listen to, and to grow my fan base.  And that is about you can try and do here in Australia.

I guess also for you, being so young, it is not as if you have had as many years as others, to dream about having this sort of career and how you might run it.  So does it feel a bit like you have been thrown into a washing machine and you are getting tumbled around?

Yeah. I have always wanted to do something with my music.  And there was a stage there when I just thought I am never going to be good enough, so what is the point?  And I just drifted away from it.  And then all of a sudden I came back to the X-Factor auditions.  And I went in that just for the sake of it.  And look what happened. You never know unless you have a go at things. 

I am curious about you saying that you thought you were never going to be good at it.  Was that because you had been sending off demos?  Or you had tried to get shows?  Or you just thought, look, it is all too hard in general?

No.  I just never thought I was good enough.  I never had any self-confidence. Everyone used to tell me I was really good and I just never believed them.  Of course, they were going to tell me I am good, because you don’t get many people who will turn around and say, “Oh, mate.  You sound like crap.” Especially where I was from, in a little town.  There was like 20 of us at the pub on a Friday night, or something, and who wants to start a fight?

[Laughs].  That is a very good point Jason.  I wouldn’t have thought of it like that. 

Oh well, it is true [laughs]. 

So, were you getting up and singing in the pub on a Friday night then?

When I was younger I did. When I was, like, 9, 10 years of age we used to go for dinner, and they set up a little amplifier and a CD player.  And you could sing Kasey Chambers, and Shania Twain, and [laughs] all those types of artist when I was little, so.

A lot of blokes wouldn’t touch a Kasey Chambers song, I don’t think.  So I am really interested that you were covering Kasey Chambers and Shania Twain.

Oh, this was when I was, like, seven or eight. A while ago.  I couldn’t sing John Denver back then.  My voice was too high [laughs].

Fair enough. But, still, I think it is great you were singing Kasey Chambers songs.  So has your band changed at all during the tour?  Do you get to continue with the same band in 2014?

We are until May but once I release my new album, I will be finding my own band.

Does that mean you essentially operate as your own band leader?  So you are making all those choices?

Definitely, when I go on tour by myself I will be choosing the band.  Choosing my songs I am singing.  Choosing the act that comes with me, whether it is a double headliner, or whether they are supporting me, or no matter what.  It really all comes down to how the next album goes.  I think if the album sells well,as good as the first, then I can take someone out the road that wants the experience of touring big time.  Like, not a double headline.  And I will just take someone out that is just starting and to give them a go.

I would imagine it is quite difficult to choose someone, because there are probably quite a few acts who would love to have the spot.  And so it is a question of working out not only who wants it, and not only who is good, but who is a good fit with you.

That’s right. You definitely want someone who would fit in well with me.  Because I am quite out there.  You don’t want someone that doesn’t swear, doesn’t do this, doesn’t do that, because I’m the total opposite, you know? So you want someone that can fit into my type of genre and my type of feel. 

Is there any part of you that looks around at your friends and thinks, oh, I am doing all this work – essentially I have got more than a full-time job, and it looks like it is going to continue for a while now, maybe I should have just kicked around and gone to uni or done something else?  Are you missing your late youth, basically? 

There are always thoughts about what is going to happen. Nothing is ever certain in this industry.  Like, prime example, we have been touring this year [2013], and have had the third biggest tour in the year in the country music.  [Some big acts] just aren’t drawing the people any more.  And it just goes to show how hard it is in this industry.  It is not an easy industry at all.

But what people do respond to is entertainment.  And you and Amber have very definitely billed this show as being entertaining.  Plus, because there are the two of you, for punters coming along, that is a really good night they are going to have.  A lot of people, I think, worry about who a support act might be.  But if they know it is you and Amber both doing sets, then that is a great night out.  So it is, essentially, a sure thing for a punter.

I 100 per cent agree with you.  You have got to be very careful who you take on the road with you, and what they sing.  You don’t want someone accompanying with me singing jazz or something, because that just wouldn’t work.  So you have got to very careful of what you do.  You are a hundred per cent right with the support artist.  If the support artist is not good, then people aren’t going to want to come and see the show, do you know what I mean? 

And it is also a responsibility because you could actually break this person’s career out in the open.  You could be giving them a lot of exposure which sets them up for their own career. That is a lot of responsibility for you, as a young artist. I can’t think of many people who have been in that position so young to, essentially, almost be moving into the position of being an elder, being able to break to someone else in the industry. 

A lot of people have said that to me, “You are quite a young artist to be doing what you are doing.  And if they are going to make it, like Keith Urban did, or so forth like that, they all start where you are.  You never just straight into the limelight.  You always built it.  But you have had an amazing start.  You have got 15,000 followers on Facebook.  And that is just an incredible achievement for your first album, and everything like that.”  So, yeah, I am very excited.

Jason Owen and Amber Lawrence play at West Tamworth Leagues Club on Thursday 23 January 2014. Tickets from www.wtlc.com.au. 

www.jasonowenofficial.com

Review: Slim Dime

Over the past handful of years, it has become obvious that Australian country music and its subgenres are home to independently recorded and released music that is of very high quality. The writing, producing, recording, singing and playing are all of such a standard that it should perhaps make 'traditional' record companies nervous - what happens if country musicians all decide to go independent?

Too many weeks ago - and I say 'too many' because I've been remiss in not reviewing these albums earlier - I was sent Hillbillly Salad by Slim Dime and the Prairie Kings, and Hold Fast by Slim Dime.  Slim Dime are a Melbourne duo, with Jen Land and Chris Taylor on vocals and all sorts of guitars. 

Hillbilly Salad is well named, its eight tracks (does that make it a long EP or a short LP?) embodying the spirit and style of honky tonk. Land's voice has a wonderful tone and it sits comfortably and cleanly above the music. 

Hold Fast is a more melodic production - Land has lead vocals throughout (whereas they are shared on Hillbilly Salad), and the songs, and the singing, are sweeter. Some of the tracks are traditional, some covers and some originals. The traditional songs may have determined the direction of the album, towards ballads, so this is a slower, more melancholic affair than Hillbilly Salad.

Both of these recordings were independently made, and they exemplify the best of their kind. They also offer a simplicity of production that honours the songs  - the tracks are not overlaid with more instruments than they need in order to make the sound 'bigger' for radio, which is obviously a concern for record companies. Thus we see why independent recordings suit country music so well: in a genre where songwriting is held in such high esteem, the most outstanding recordings are those that recognise that. Slim Dime treat songs with utmost respect, and the listener is the beneficiary. Plus, I could listen to Jen Land's voice for days.

These recordings are available on CD or via download - visit http://slimdime.bandcamp.com.

Slim Dime are playing in the Melbourne area: visit http://www.songkick.com/artists/6817289-slim-dime-and-the-prairie-kings for details. 

Have a Buddy Goode Christmas

Your Christmas will not be complete this year - or any year hereafter - without the dulcet tones of country superstar Buddy Goode and his new album, It's a Buddy Goode Christmas, coming through your hi-fi stereo system. With tracks such as 'Cheeses', 'Yellow Snow', 'Joseph the Chippy' 'A New Front Bum', 'She Pulls My Bonbon' and 'The Gingerbread Man', it's an instant classic [warning: those with religious sensitivities may not wish to read further].

With the release of this new LP Buddy is in high demand, but I was able to steal him away from the eggnog for a conversation about his new album, Christmas in general, and his search for love - or, at least, for the next Mrs Goode.

What does Christmas mean to Buddy Goode?

Christmas is about tinsel. It’s about mistletoe. It’s about puddin’. It’s about turkey. It’s about children. And it’s about gettin’ together with people you never see.

Are there people you never see who you’re looking forward to seeing at Christmas – or not?

Well, I’m actually not seeing anyone, so it’s gonna be a great Christmas. So I won’t be seeing anyone. It’s just me. I won’t be going anywhere. I’m just going to sit at home and listen to my Christmas album about a dozen times with a Christmas hat on. That’s my Christmas Day.

How is it possible, though, that one of the most popular men in country music is going to spend Christmas Day alone?

It’s a time to reflect, ya know? And I think the best way to be able to reflect on things, on your life and past loves, past conquests, is to spend that moment on your own. I think Christmas Day’s a special time to do that because everyone’s so caught up doin’ what they’re doin’ and goin’ where they’ve gotta go and bein’ a whole bunch of places, givin’ presents they don’t necessarily want to, to people they don’t want to to. So I think it’s the best day to sit at home, watch King of Kings, have a glass of Maison and just reflect.

Can you restrict yourself to just a glass?

It’s hard to get a case of Passion Pop these days so I’m going to limit myself to the one bottle of Maison.

Have you ever dressed up as Santa?

I did. I did. Once upon a time when I was just sixteen, at my local Baptist Church, the Fourteenth Chapter of the Baptists of Pennsylvania, and I was in the church choir, and what we did every Christmas Eve, we’d gather at the church – the whole community would come together – and we’d form a live nativity scene. One year I lost my Joseph outfit and I had to wear my Santa Claus outfit. It wasn’t quite appropriate but it was better than wearing a Hawaiian shirt. I thought it was the closest thing I could get. It was either go as a Christmas Elf or I could go as Santa, so I went as Santa. And no one seemed to notice.

Did the story of Joseph the Chippy inspire you either to become a chippy or become the father of the Messiah?

My attachment to that song is very dear. I have an affinity with chippies, labourers, and of course Joseph was the original chippy, the most famous carpenter of them all. In the song ‘Joseph the Chippy’, I was watching a documentary on Youtube one night – so it obviously has to be true – but the Bible doesn’t tell us what happened to Joseph and they went into it in great detail [in the documentary]. And I watched that before I watched an episode of Air Crash Investigations, so I may have got my wires crossed. Maybe some of the information got a little bit twisted. But I’m pretty sure it’s accurate.

I tend to think all of your songs are factually accurate. It’s a policy I’ve had for a while.

Well it’s as factually accurate as the Bible. And I’ve read the Bible from back to front, because I like knowing how it ends. I can’t handle the excitement so I like to know what’s going to happen before it happens.

If Christmas is all about cheeses, what happens if you could only pick one cheese – which cheese would it be?

Blue vein. A big chunk of blue vein always goes down well at my house.

Would you like to narrow that down – Stilton? Roquefort? Gorgonzola?

All the varieties. And the smellier the better.  Washed down with a bottle of Maison and a packet of Ritz crackers.

And also, one would imagine, accompanied by some gingerbread – because the Gingerbread Man may come around?

The Gingerbread Man, Bill, he very rarely brought gingerbread – it was one of the things he probably felt funny about bringing because of his heritage. He used to bring around lots of different things.

Does he still bring presents to his special ginger children-friends?

It’s been a long time since I’ve spent any time in the neighbourhood. I occasionally get a postcard from Aunt Siobhan. And evidently Bill’s still gettin’ around there. Every week – every Monday morning – he’s still delivering his bread and his French stick – his baguette. He’s still giving a few ladies in the neighbourhood the odd baguette. I think these days he’s part-timin’ too as the Neighbourhood Watch guy. He’s like a safe haven for kids after school. Especially the ones with ginger hair.

As you probably don’t want a new front bum for Christmas yourself, what’s on your wish list for Santa?

I’m after companionship this year. I want to spend twelve months looking for the next Mrs Goode. So I’m combing the country looking for a partner in life, someone who’s prepared to endure the touring schedule and recording schedule of an international superstar. But also somebody who wants to share all the good things in life – in summertime the beach, the sand, the beautiful holidays, the candlelit dinners, and in winter the beach, the sand, the beautiful candlelit dinners and the snow.

I would think with your international touring schedule, it would be the eternal summer – when it’s winter in Australia you could be touring where it’s summer. So the future Mrs Goode could indeed be enjoying beachtime, summetime, even in wintertime.

Exactly. She’s gotta be flexible, like Nadia Comaneci, ya know. She’s gotta be flexible and adapt to anything that Buddy Goode’s up to. Of course she’s gotta be independent too. She’s gotta know what she wants in life – as long as I’m on top of that list.

This is your opportunity to put out a detailed personal ad for the future Mrs Goode, so are there are any other attributes you’d like her to have?

I like most of it to be real, you know what I mean. Not fussy which parts aren’t, but at least 90 per cent of what God gave her, and the other 10 per cent I’m flexible. But I need someone with a good, strong mind, someone who’d love to play Sudoku or someone who’s intelligent enough to answer at least one question in Glenn A Baker’s Rock Academy trivia game.

I think it’s likely, as you tour around, that you’ll find someone with those attributes. So 2014 is looking good for Buddy Goode.

I’m hoping. And especially as I tour the regional areas – that’s where I’m hoping to find the right Mrs Goode. Because I love country girls. Country girls seem to be able to offer a lot more than city girls. They’re not as fussy. They offer far more because they accept a whole lot less.

At what age did you get too big for Santa’s knee?

Never. Never too big for Santa’s knee. I wrote a song about it on my album but  the reason I did that is that it’s a protest song, like ‘Big Yellow Taxi’. It’s my Christmas protest song. No matter what age you are, you should be allowed to go to Grace Bros or David Jones or your local Westfield and be able to go up and sit on Santa’s knee no matter how big you are. We’re all kids at heart, and that never dies.

So will you be doing that this year?

I’ve done it at least a dozen times already. Per day. They see me comin’ and they’re reachin’ for that ‘Back in 10 Minutes’ sign, I tell ya.

And while you’re waiting for Santa to return, perhaps you’re eating some yellow snow … But it seems to me that you have not heard Frank Zappa’s song about not eating the yellow snow.

I have heard it. But when you write these songs about your own experiences in life, it’s amazing the people you don’t know personally who have had the same experiences. So who would have thought that me, standing out the back of my little hut up in the mountains, with all my friends, building a snowman made out of snow filled with urine, that Frank Zappa had the same experience when he was a kid.

Now, it’s an ambitious thing to release a Christmas album when so many have before, like Michael Bolton. But do you feel yours could sit alongside your more classic Christmas releases, like Johnny Mathis and Bing Crosby and Jim Nabors?

Certainly. I put mine right in there just above Johnny Mathis and just right below Jim Nabors, which is  a little bit of a worry. The classics, as we all know, are Bing Crosby’s ‘White Christmas’ and his other Christmas records. But the '80s was a good time for the Christmas album too – the Bros Christmas album; the Starship Christmas album. There’s always plenty. But it’s always funny how many people do these Christmas albums and they never get any recognition for them. None of the Christmas albums ever get nominated for Grammys or Golden Guitars, but I’m plannin’ to change that next year. I’m hopin’ that this Christmas album will certainly win me my second ARIA and my first Golden Guitar. And maybe a Grammy.

Well, your Christmas album would one of the few ever to feature original songs.

That’s a good point. There’s been a lot of controversy lately over Troy Cassar-Daley and Adam Harvey’s album Country Song Book. It’s a fabulous record. All those great songs that we’ve heard a million times. But I love it. When I was writing songs for my Christmas album I was kind of planning to do a few of the old classics, you know. But I just couldn’t do it. I thought I’d get in too much trouble. Once something’s been done so perfectly in the past, it’s not for Buddy Goode to go in there and do it better.

It's a Buddy Goode Christmas is out now from ABC Music. 

Interview: Corrina Steel

Corrina Steel has enough country music in her albums to qualify for inclusion on this website - and I'm so glad she does, as she was a delight to interview. Corrina has just released the wonderful Borrowed Tunes, an eclectic collection of cover songs, with her long-time collaborator Mike Steel, and I spoke to her recently about choosing and recording the songs, and all sorts of other things. 

I saw something in your bio about you being in France and there being wine, cheese and clothes and singing Rod Stewart songs at parties and that was the germ of the idea for this album.  Is that the case?

Yes.  That's right.  That's very true.  We were playing some shows over there and it's pretty easy to get carried out away and yeah, we'd have our little after-parties in our apartment and Mike and I would just end up belting out these Rod Stewart songs and everybody did shut up and listen so we thought oh, maybe we're onto something here.  Let's do a covers album.

Do you have a particular affection for Rod Stewart?

Seventies Rod, most definitely. [Laughter]

So you think the multiple-divorcee Rod is not really your style?  It's early ’70s Rod.

No, no.  Definitely ’70s Rod, full mullet ’70s Rod. [Laughter]

I read that you had or have some original songs already recorded but you released Borrowed Tunes before releasing the new original material. Why did you make that decision?

I just wanted to put something out quickly really and start playing live again.  And, I guess, mainly because I love the recording process.  I find that the most fun and challenging part.  And we've made two albums now in my lounge room so it's very easy and the guys have fun doing it this way.  This one we made over three weekends, just sitting around the lounge room and eating lots of yummy food.  To me the most fun you can have on the weekend is making an album.

You're actually the first person, I think, I've ever spoken to who says they love the recording process. 

Really?

Or maybe I just haven't asked but no-one has ever really just come out with it like that before saying - usually they say they prefer performing above anything.  But I guess it is a form of performance, recording.

Yes.  Well, it is but I'm the other way around.  I get a bit nervous performing.  I'm not in my natural zone doing that.  To me, it's more about sitting around the microphone and it's very intimate and - I don't know - just trying to get everything sounding really authentic and natural.  It's quite a challenge but I've made five albums now, so I think I'm getting my head around how to make it the most fun for everyone.

I'd imagine with your albums that they're recorded live, that you're not recording vocal tracks separately to the instrumental tracks?

Yeah, that's right.  On this one especially, Mike and I found out we really need to record his guitar part and my vocal live because we bounce off each other a lot, so the drummer had to sit down and listen to it.  They think the timing is probably way out but Mike was just really wrapping his guitar around my vocals and what I was doing.  So it's technically certainly not perfect but, I think, it sounds quite real [laughs].

Your voice is also very high in the mix, which is appropriate because that should be the focus of your albums, you singing the songs.  But you can find in some albums that the instruments threaten to swamp the vocals.  I guess that's the art of production and of recording properly. 

Yes.  And I guess with this album, because a lot of it is just nylon string and vocals, so that just wasn't a problem at all.  But yeah, in past recordings, I've had my vocals pulled back because it's different when you're singing your own songs.  You're not always as confident.  Whereas belting out other people's hits - just as a singer, it's a whole different concept for me.  And you just do become a lot more confident. 

I saw Troy Cassar-Daley and Adam Harvey a while ago now and they did their very first Country Song Book tour, which was them taking all sorts of old country songs - most of them old - and playing them.  And I've seen both of them play live separately.  I have never seen them have so much fun or be so relaxed as when they were playing other people's songs.  And I thought there must be like giving yourself permission to just be a musician, I guess, as opposed to thinking, Do people like this song? Is this song working?  So there seems to be a particular joy at it.

Yes.  It's very, very true.  You're just not as self-conscious because you're not revealing your own heart on your sleeve.  It's doing something that's already tried and tested [laughs], I guess. That's interesting you say that about them.

It was really interesting for me because I thought they're such experienced performers, the two of them, but they really just looked like there was a weight off their shoulders.  They looked younger, their shoulders were more relaxed, literally, and they keep doing it.  They've released the album and they've toured this album again already.  And they're doing it again next year so they must enjoy it. 

And it was probably also all of the songs they grew up listening to, like me with this.  They're songs that you had in your life forever so it's just fun.

Given that the songs that you've recorded are songs you've, as you said, had in your life,  when you're singing them, do you feel a like you're channelling the original singer – so there's an element of little kid playing dress-ups, in a way?  That's, probably, not the right way to put it but you know what I mean.

No [laughs], I do.  Not so much, because we wanted to make it our own as well.  Some songs, a few we did try that we threw away because I felt like I was just being an impersonator.  And we didn't really want to be playing dress-ups so - but I know what you mean, but we actually threw those ones away that we felt didn't have our own personal stamp on them.

And just on that theme, I would actually think it's quite hard as a singer to not do that.  It seems like it's no surprise that you ended up recording some that did sound a bit like the originals because that would be what's in your brain, I would think, when you're approaching the song.  So to make it your own, you've got to put it through some, kind of, internal process.

Yes.  I mean there's a couple on the album which, probably … Linda Ronstadt is, possibly, my all-time favourite singer and so to put one of her songs on there was a bit of a challenge to not to sound like a cover band, you know?  So that's why we approached it with just having the nylon string and the mandolin, because her production was very big.  And also the Tammy Wynette one.  But, yes, it did go through my mind of not wanting to sound like a cover band but also keeping it similar but somehow making it a bit new.  It's just a very fine line actually [laughs].

It’s something that a very new performer probably can’t do successfully.  There are new performers who do covers, especially if they're playing live, because that's a way to get a foot in the industry in performance, but I think it does take an artist at a certain level of experience who is actually, to a degree, confident in themselves  to then sing other people's songs and make them their own.  I don't think that someone who's not experienced and who doesn't know who they are can pull that off, actually.

I don't think doing a covers album straight off the bat would have worked for me fifteen, twenty years ago, because you'd just probably be trying to sound like whoever that singer is you love.  But doing it further down the track is very interesting and also, as I was saying, it's a lot of fun and I've got to now get back focused to writing songs.  But it is very tempting to want to go and do it again. Three weekends with the boys and you've got another album.  It is fun.

Even though this album sprang out of a Rod Stewart thing, it's not a Rod Stewart album, so how did you even start selecting songs for this?

Gosh, well, I've got a pretty huge vinyl collection so I thin, I started there, just pulling out albums that I love - our only rule was to not have any rules.  So that leaves you with a pretty wide spectrum.  And not knowing at all if the songs were going to fit together was another thing which we didn't even really keep in mind.  We just focused on being inside the song there and then and hoped and prayed that, at the end, they'd all fit together. We eliminated a couple and then they did. [Laughter]

So you eliminated a couple after you recorded them?

Yes.

So there's some bonus tracks floating around out there somewhere.

Yeah, there are [laughs].  There are but Mike, my guitar player, he is definitely more from the rock end of town so the Primal Scream song was his idea.  The Iggy Pop song, the Stooges song, was his idea.  And he was also going through a Tammy Wynette phase at the time so he brought a lot of those things to the table.

Sorry, it was the juxtaposition of Iggy Pop and Tammy Wynette that I was laughing at.

Yes, you got that. [Laughter]

Maybe it's a stage in a man's life where you graduate from Iggy Pop to Tammy Wynette, I don't know.

Yeah, that's right.  Well, she was married to George Jones.

Well, true.  And, actually, on the subject of Mike – he's not just your collaborator for this album, he's your guitarist, as you said, and collaborator for your original material.  So I was wondering about how that collaboration first formed and whether it works differently when you're working on your originals as opposed to how it worked when you did this album?

No.  Mike and I just - we've got to the point where we can just read each other really well and we're just musically very much on the same page.  We never disagree about anything when it comes to songs at all.  And so no, it's very natural and very simple for us.  So very lucky, very blessed to have found him.

It's an unusual creative synergy to have with someone else.  Even if you have friends that you're musically in agreeance with, it's quite a different thing to have a creative relationship with someone along those lines.

Yes, it is but, I think, you know that old saying about music? There's two types – good and bad.

I thought you were about to say ‘;country and western’ there, but no.

No.  Good and bad, and Mike and I have our own very distinct good and bad.  There's not much he likes that I don't and vice versa.  And that's right across the board of music.  I mean, he'll put me onto some obscure hip hop scene and I'll put him onto some obscure old blues thing.  And we always just tend to agree on what we think is cool or not.

Yes that's a very lucky find in a person.  It sounds to me like since childhood, you've just been immersed in music.

I guess like a lot of people, growing up in the ’70s.  It was just always on in the house and, I don't know, I guess we just took it for granted.  And I had two older brothers, so my dad was blaring country music and my older brothers were playing rock ’n’ roll and punk.  And somehow I landed up being quite young and finding Neil Young and when all my friends were listening to Boy George, I was listening to Neil Young.  I'm not sure how that happened.

It probably made you a very interesting person to have around high school.

Maybe. [Laughter]

So you carried that through, obviously, when you went into your own musical career, it was not pop.  It was of a country theme.

Yes.  My first album was pretty country, I guess.  I think when I'd made that that whole alt-country thing was just becoming big.  But I wasn't really paying attention to that.  I've never really paid attention to what's going on. [Laughter]

You could be too heavily influenced as an artist, I guess, if you're paying attention to what other people are doing.  If your interest is in authentically pursuing music, really, whatever it is, it's good to not be too aware of what others might tell you to do or what others think you should do or what other people are doing.

Definitely.  Well, for me it is.  That's why, when we made this album, I was sitting in a café in Indonesia and I heard a version of ‘I Want To Be Your Dog’ come on.  I was saying, ‘Oh my God’, and it was a girl doing it with an acoustic guitar.  And I thought, This is exactly why I didn't Google anybody doing any of these songs besides the original I knew, because I just did not want to hear what anyone else was doing it - how anyone else was doing it.  Just to try and keep it original and fresh.  But back to what everyone else is doing: I think maybe it works for some artists but for me, definitely not.  I maybe need to listen to more music than I do.

You’re playing as part of the Tamworth Country Music Festival, in Nundle, which is a beautiful town and still part of the festival.  So you can catch up with what people are doing there.

Yes, exactly. 

I know there are a few people playing at Nundle this year.  I think they've made a real effort to put more people on in Nundle, which is great.

,It is, yeah, because Tamworth can be a little bit overwhelming, can't it?

Yep.

I haven't been for a few years but it's so huge and it's so hot.  I haven't had that much to do with Tamworth but I'm really looking forward to Nundle.

I hope you'll enjoy it.  I also wanted to ask you – because you release your albums on your own label, you obviously like that or you'd seek to do something else.  But is it a lot of extra work putting things out on your own label, having to run that side of your life?

Yes, definitely.  That's why once the recording process is actually finished, the bit I love, you have to allow yourself a week or two just to sink a little bit before you take on the next challenge, which is that side of it.  Which I find to be a thousand times more hard work.  But I've got a distribution company - I go through MGM - so that's a great help.  But no, definitely, I think most artists find that side of it a bit daunting, but you have to do it.

It seems that there are a lot of musicians doing it now more than ever and making a go of it, which I find really interesting.  And they're mainly within country music but they're working musicians.  They're playing gigs and they're producing their own records and they're having them distributed and managing everything.  And while I think that the creative side of your life can, sometimes, be threatened by having to do all that other left-brain management business work, if you can pull it off, it's probably, more satisfying in the end than handing a lot of it over to other people.

Exactly.  I couldn't handle the idea of having people sitting in an office, pushing you to make their percentage to pay their mortgage.  That's certainly doesn't sounds like much fun [laughs].  But to allocate time frames, that's the only way I found I can do it.  You have the creative process or you're making something and then have the time to do the business side of it.  And then Mike and I only just started rehearsing again last week for our run of gigs.  Now, all that stuff is in the past and we're back into the creative part of it.  I can't juggle both bits, I'm afraid [laughs].  Some people can, I can't. So again, back to the exciting bit again now, yeah.

As a songwriter, as a recording artist and as a performer, even though to people on the outside that just seems like it falls under the label ‘musician’, they are quite distinct skill sets so it's no surprise to me to hear you say you have those happening at separate times.  If you tried to do them all at once, there's a danger that they can affect each other in terms of how well you can do each of them.

Yeah, absolutely.  Definitely.  And when I'm doing all that, the more business side of things, I'm just not interested in playing and trying to force it because, to me, the music side of it has to be very natural and feel authentic and passionate.  And you've been swamped with emails and press releases and this, that and the other, I don't feel that I can do that job - the proper job properly.

Well, I'm going to let you get back to your proper job because I've had you talking for over 20 minutes.

[Laughter] Thank you, Sophie.  It was lovely to talk to you.

http://www.corrinasteel.com/